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About the Author
Dennis Forbes is a Toronto-based software architect. While focused primarily on the .NET and SQL Server worlds, Dennis frequently ventures outside of this comfort zone into game development, Linux development, and image processing. He has been published in several industry magazines, has been quoted in the Wall Street Journal and has been interviewed by NPR.

He is a vice president and lead software architect at an innovative New York City hedge fund back-office services firm.

Dennis has been working on solutions for the financial, telecommunications, and power generation markets for over 13 years.


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Saturday, November 12 2005

Apparently the marketing plan for Riya is bloggers and online "word-of-mouth". This seems to be paying off very well: Many are  about or discussing this "amazing" product, and how it's going to revolutionize the photo tagging world. Flickr (Yahoo!) and Google are going to be knocking down their door trying to get a piece of that action!

Remarkable, though, how incredibly few people have actually used the product, and how few will actually vouch for its capabilities. If you want to sign-up currently, and try the product out yourself, it's an "invite only" affair (though strangely you have to send them your email address - That's not invite only. That's a lottery system). Despite the so-called press (see the Wired article above) heaping on strangely uncritical praise, no credible reviewer has had a round with the software. Odd, wouldn't you say? Wouldn't it make sense to get a respected reviewer to vouch for its capabilities before firing up the press wagons? Someone credible who would put it through its paces and either credit or discredit it, putting their actual career on the line if they misrepresented it.

Facial and scene recognition is easy in theory - it's something we've all imagined up, inventing our own naive ways to do it - but in reality it is extremely difficult. Yet these guys not only managed to leap the gigantic hurdle of facial recognition (including discerning among incredibly similar people - close relatives, and supposedly even twins), but they added in fantastic, unparalleled text detection as well (in one case purportedly reading a tiny car logo sloped about 70 degrees away from the camera, among other fairly impressive feats).

When it comes to revolutionary technologies like face/scene recognition, it is critically important to withhold judgement until it actually proves itself in the real world (and no - I'm not being hypocritical. I'm not saying it doesn't work - I honestly don't know - but I'm just say that without proof otherwise claims of revolution seem a little premature). Facial recognition in particular is a field filled with hucksters and fraudsters, grossly overselling the capabilities of their system with dummied up sample cases and ridiculously ideal scenarios (or even worse - "mechanical turks" have been known to occur). I consider facial recognition much like the compression market - how many times have we heard about revolutionary new compression technologies, sold through jimmied up demos and "observers" on the dole, that in the end turned out to be nothing but a fraud (or a completely impractical edge scenario that is of no value in the real world).

I have no idea if this particular product is legitimate or not, but the lack of credible analysis thus far makes the growing chorus of revolution a bit difficult to stomach.

Reader Comments

I agree, I am also amazed how easy it is to impress people with words alone. Michael Arrington had a chance to try it out though, and he said it was surprisingly accurate: http://www.techcrunch.com/2005/10/26/riya-prepares-to-launch-alpha

(I think this is the second time I point to TechCrunch here. That is a coincedendence, really. I do feel like a web 2.0 marketing droid now, though).
lena @ 11/13/2005 4:02:50 AM
Great link - thank you Lena. I looked through a bit of TechCrunch and found several other Riya links that lead me to believe that Michael isn't a disinterested, critical third party. It seems that the people who are talking glowingly about Riya are people who are involved in tightly knit subset, which is what concerns me about the "hype".

I'm also a bit unsure why everyone is categorizing Riya as "Web 2.0", when the bulk of it is built around a fat desktop client that couldn't be built using the current available web technologies.

If it works then it will be fantastic, but I'm still not convinced. Their method of publicizing this seems too bizarre. Not only do I question the motives of those speaking glowingly about it, but their extremely limited test study makes it entirely possible that they are using a "mechanical turk".
Dennis Forbes @ 11/13/2005 9:37:58 AM
I notice that there is a PCMagazine micro-preview up

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1885031,00.asp

Remarkable how much more reserved and "maybe it'll work in the future" PC Mag was versus some of the other "reviewers". The PC Magazine review seems to say that the facial recognition is marginal to useless, if not detrimental. They temper their statements by qualifying it that it's an early preview, and maybe it'll get better, but therein lies the rub: Facial recognition is a long sought after goal -- just because they built an infrastructure in which facial rec. can be used in no way puts them any closer to the end goal - they _still_ don't have facial rec if it doesn't reliably work.
Dennis Forbes @ 11/13/2005 12:50:01 PM
I'm not totally sure how to respond to this other than to say that I totally agree with you...seriously, we don't want to drink our own Koolaid yet.

Kathleen at Wired and Cade at PC Magazine both used the product at length...with mixed results, as you have noted. I do believe, however, that those in the blogosphere who haven't used it (although some have) are excited by the posibilities. And there are those. And I acknowledge that we still have a long way to go, as you point out face rec in consumer photos is very difficult.

Anyway, thanks Dennis for this. I hope that when and if you use it, you will provide some major feedback for us so we can work towards what people are hoping from us.

Feel free to drop me a line anytime.
Tara 'Miss Rogue' Hunt @ 11/13/2005 2:47:24 PM
I pointed out TechCrunch because at least the author had actually tried the software, and posted some screenshots. I do not think he has an interest in Riya, but he is obviously a Web 2.0 enthousiast. The Web 2.0 hype reminds me of Linux a couple of years ago (or still). So much talk about how much better than Windows it was, even as a desktop system, and then when you tried it, you found that even basic functionality like copy/paste did not work out of the box.

This is, by the way, the first blog posting about Riya that I read (other than the TechCrunch review, which I only skimmed, because I am not that interested in alpha software), so ironically you are the contributor to the hype for me. I am a bit disappointed that you crushed it immediately, and the fact that Ms Hunt agrees with you only makes it worse. It looks like such a cool product.
lena @ 11/13/2005 5:23:29 PM
lena,

I have no intention of crushing it, and given that I have zero experience with it I couldn't possibly do so if I wanted to (I am, quite honestly, completely uninformed about it). What caught my attention was seeing several posts appearing, and then a Slashdot story, with people falling over themselves ready to declare a revolution in photo management, but without a valid foundation to back it up. On the flip side, I'm not saying that it _isn't_ a revolution, because I really don't know. What I do know is that technologies often look better before you know them - as you mentioned very similar to Linux. It most certainly has its place, but it was supposed to be the year of Linux half a decade ago.
Dennis Forbes @ 11/13/2005 5:51:25 PM
Lena,

I certainly didn't mean to come across like we aren't building a revolution here - I wouldn't be with Riya if I didn't believe that it's significant. I just wholeheartedly agree with Dennis that there is more hype than substance right now...

...but soon enough, both of you will be able to test drive it for yourselves and come to your own conclusion. Drop me a line and I'll put you on the alpha list...if you are interested.

Tara
Tara 'Miss Rogue' Hunt @ 11/13/2005 8:13:25 PM
lena,

Just noticed this: http://www.techcrunch.com/2005/11/19/riyas-launch-party-techcrunch/

That's exactly the sort of thing that discounts someone from being a credible critic - Michael Arrington had the party for Riya at his own house. Doesn't it make you a bit more cynical of his reporting on the same?
Dennis Forbes @ 11/21/2005 11:06:22 AM

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